View Full Version : This appears to be up for debate.
nevermore
10-31-2009, 08:38 PM
Did Manfred die?
I was under the impression that he was certainly dead. It wasn't until I came here and saw that there were some uncertainties that I questioned this. I have to go find my book and read the scene again, but I think what happened was:
Blessed pushed Ezekiel's chair right as Manfred had his hands all flaming.
Ezekiel flew through the air, landing upon Manfred.
Ezekiel caught fire and burned to death. Manfred, trapped beneath his burning grandfather, burned too.
This was what I gathered reading it the first time, however I sat up through the night to finish the book last night, and being tired, I may have read things wrong. I'll go find the book later and re-read that scene.
What are your thoughts regarding the chain of events, and what do you think happened?
Edit: I have added a poll. Feel free to vote how you feel for now, because I can always change your votes as the debate continues and we undoubtedly change our minds five or six more times.
Sazza
10-31-2009, 08:56 PM
For old Ezekiel came flying down the stairs. The wheels of his chair hit the treads once, twice, and then he was in the air. Too shocked to move, Manfred could only stare at the airborne thing in horror. When it landed on him he emitted a single high-pitched scream that would echo in Charlie's head for years to come.
Old Ezekiel rolled out of his chair, gave a long gurgle and fell silent. The flames, smouldering on a hand that protruded from the tangled heap, spluttered and died.
I never got the impression that they were burned, because it doesn't really say so. It just says they land in a tangled heap, and the flame in poor Manfred's hand goes out.
That been said, I could just be deluding myself. I really, really don't want Manfred to die. I love him so much! :(
I think they are both unconscious, because despite what you may think, Dr Bloor isn't heartless, and he cares about both his son and Ezekiel, too much so to just look at them knowing they're dead. In my opinion, if they had died, he would have said something, gotten angry, or sad, not just walked off and left them.
However, certain words used later bring doubt into my mind about this:
Dr Bloor moved towards the dreadful pile of wood and bones. It was difficult to read his expression, but he didn't touch either of the bodies.
And he was speaking bleakly, so maybe he was just in shock...
So I'm not really sure about whether or not he is in fact dead or not. Although I can't tell you how much I hope that he isn't, it is likely...:(
nevermore
10-31-2009, 09:03 PM
But if Manfred wasn't dead, why would his scream have haunted Charlie for years?
But yes, re-reading that passage again, it seems to me that the dying flame represented the life going out of Manfred as well. When the flame died, he died.
Ezekiel most certainly fell to his death, regardless of whether or not he caught fire, but agreed, the mention of bodies and bones confirms (to me) their death. I don't think they would have simply been referred to as "bodies" if they were just an unconscious heap, and if they weren't dead, there certainly would have been a lawsuit from either Manfred or Ezekiel regarding the ownership of the school. Dr. Bloor may have given up the battle, but if either Manfred or Ezekiel had survived, you can bet they wouldn't have given up without a fight.
Sazza
10-31-2009, 09:11 PM
When you say it like that, it seems very probable. But this is so cruel! I don't want Manfred to die! Especially not from such a horrific death that was completely not his fault :( I really, really don't like Blessed now :(
nevermore
10-31-2009, 09:30 PM
Yeah... I think the denial definitely stems from so many of you being convinced Manfred has a hidden sweet side. Jenny even said in that interview (http://charlie-bone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2691) that she was surprised girls still liked Manfred, because he was written with the intention of being evil to the core. I think he was supposed to be up there with Count Harken on the evil scale. Maybe even Harken's modern counterpart.
So to think that so many baddies would have died, but that Manfred didn't, kind of surprises me, to be honest...
I must say though, knowing how many people liked Manfred, Jenny shouldn't have written the scene as delicately as she did. It's hard to figure out what happened, exactly.
PotatoesRule
11-01-2009, 05:24 AM
o-o
I just thought they went unconscious.. and because they went unconscious, Manfred's flames died out. I never thought they died.
icingsugar
11-01-2009, 10:17 AM
same.
Although I have also read that Manfred is Jenny's favourite "bad" character.
Plus even though he was bad, if he was infact dead, I'm sure Paton would have been less calm than "I'll phone an ambulance" like he did. Even though he was bad, he was still only 18 (I think) years old.
I think Zeke is probably dead because its unlikely a man of that age could survive a fall. But a healthy 18 year old probably wouldn't die with a wheelchair crashing into them, unless it crushed their organs or something.
Plus as for the fire going out thing, if he was unconscious surely the fire would go out (I cant imagine it still being on when hes asleep for example) and wouldn't Paton have checked for a pulse/given mouth to mouth ect if he had died.
And after Manfred got better (if he did) surely he'd be too scared to return and seek revenge, considering the awful influence of Zeke is out of his life (I got the impression he only did bad things because he was "meant to" as in his whole family did. It cant be easy inheriting such a horrible power as hypnotism and flame ... there really is no "nice" way of using that is there? :p)
Either way I still love Manfred, because good or bad, he was definitely one of the most interesting characters in the book. And it doesn't help me hate him anymore when I picture him as Harry Lloyd :p:rolleyes::D
nevermore
11-01-2009, 06:27 PM
same.
Although I have also read that Manfred is Jenny's favourite "bad" character.
Plus even though he was bad, if he was infact dead, I'm sure Paton would have been less calm than "I'll phone an ambulance" like he did.
I dunno... that's about as much as he did when they found Mr. Whatsisface dead near the beginning of the book. Charlie and Emma's calmness was rather disturbing to me, actually.
"Oh no he's dead. Hey, wanna come back to my place for tea?"
"yeah ok." :rolleyes:
I think Zeke is probably dead because its unlikely a man of that age could survive a fall. But a healthy 18 year old probably wouldn't die with a wheelchair crashing into them, unless it crushed their organs or something.
Plus as for the fire going out thing, if he was unconscious surely the fire would go out (I cant imagine it still being on when hes asleep for example) and wouldn't Paton have checked for a pulse/given mouth to mouth ect if he had died.
I think that's why I got the impression at first that they went up into a big burst of flames, and all that was left was manfred's smoldering hand protruding from the ashes. Although... Jenny doesn't seem to be that graphic, like, ever, so...
Haha, we need Cat to go meet with Jenny again and ask her for us. :D
icingsugar
11-01-2009, 07:34 PM
Ive asked on the ask jenny thing on the website but I doubt she will answer that question out of the hundreds she gets.
SparkleViolet
11-01-2009, 07:53 PM
She might...you'll never know!
nevermore
11-01-2009, 08:01 PM
haha, maybe if we all did it, and mentioned that we were from the Charlie Bone forum...
Dear Jenny,
I am a member of the Charlie-Bone.com forum, and we are in the middle of a rather heated debate. Did Manfred die at the end of The Red Knight? If not, what really happened? Thank you for clearing this up for your most dedicated fans.
Sincerely,
(insert username here)
Kingdom Hearts
11-01-2009, 08:55 PM
i'll ask on the website on the ask jenny thing
You stupid boy
11-01-2009, 09:01 PM
I think he's dead. It definitely said "bodies", plus he got crushed by a wheelchair, and it was just worded so... finally. Dead as a doornail. ;)
Paton
11-01-2009, 10:39 PM
WHAT?!I never though Manfred had died!!It didn't even come it mind!It didn't seem like he died...It dosen't seem like Jenny would make a character die in that way.I don't think he did.
icingsugar
11-02-2009, 08:32 PM
aha
Jenny should become a member of the forum and clear this up :')
Paton
11-03-2009, 03:47 PM
She should!Even just to say if Manfred died or not...I still don'tt hink he did...
icingsugar
11-03-2009, 04:13 PM
i dont want him to die :(
BurningFire
11-03-2009, 06:54 PM
As much as I don't want him to I think he did :(.
icingsugar
11-04-2009, 04:31 PM
Oh well. :(
Theres still fanfiction...
SparkleViolet
11-05-2009, 12:36 AM
That's right! We'll always have fanfiction!
Why don't we all write our own take on what happened to Manfred?
Kingdom Hearts
11-05-2009, 12:54 AM
ill fianly be happy if hes dead ^_^
styxbeam
11-05-2009, 02:38 AM
sniffle :(
i'd be happy if he was! but i dont really think so... :'(
((OMG IM BACK YAY NO ONE CARES lol BUT I AM!))
Kingdom Hearts
11-05-2009, 03:18 AM
OMG YOUR BACK! and you delted your youtube! OMG I MISSED YOU! *hugs*
SparkleViolet
11-05-2009, 05:35 AM
Where have you been?
icingsugar
11-05-2009, 04:24 PM
sniffle :(
i'd be happy if he was! but i dont really think so... :'(
((OMG IM BACK YAY NO ONE CARES lol BUT I AM!))
psh well I would care...until you said that about MY Manfred :rolleyes:;)
BurningFire
12-31-2009, 08:10 AM
In the charlie bone website in ask Jenny she says:
What happens to the Bloors after the last book?
I'm not certain where the Bloors went after the last book. I imagine they went North to join Dr Loth in his notorious Loth Academy.
So does that mean just Dr. Bloor or Dr. Bloor, Ezekiel and Manfred?
DayDream
12-31-2009, 10:38 PM
I think it just means Dr. Bloor and Manfred.
icingsugar
02-19-2010, 02:41 PM
I hope so :(
SparkleViolet
02-19-2010, 11:15 PM
Yeah. Same here.
Kalik2486
02-20-2010, 04:25 AM
Hm... I haven't made a decision yet, but shouldn't Manfred get up to stop Charlie and his dad if he's still alive? Or is it that he loses consciousness so the flame goes out, but still alive and Dr. Bloor knows it. Hm...
icingsugar
02-20-2010, 12:15 PM
I doubt Dr Bloor for one would just leave if his son had died...I know he was bad but surely he must love his son :confused: He must have known he'd survive at least.
SparkleViolet
02-28-2010, 01:15 AM
Or Manfred would have had amnesia, that's why he must have "disappeared".
nevermore
02-28-2010, 03:06 AM
Or Manfred would have had amnesia, that's why he must have "disappeared".
... Huh? :confused:
SparkleViolet
02-28-2010, 11:08 PM
Well, what I meant to say was that Manfred must have gotten amnesia after the um..."accident" and then he disappeared without a trace.
Maybe I could turn this into fanfiction.
TeddyBearQueen
05-18-2010, 04:30 AM
*eep!* I'm...*tears* I...finally finished. Took me...two days. *sniffle*
I...I really really really don't want to say this...but I think my beloved is gone. I don't want to say it...but there you have it. Although there is a possibility that he ran away afterwards, but I really doubt it.
I just closed the book, finished like a second ago and raced onto her to post.
Yes yes yes he is dead. Positively. It said 'bodies' With an 's'.
nevermore
06-15-2010, 09:16 PM
Thank you!
*gives Mally some cake.*
Welcome to the "not in denial" club. :p
DayDream
06-15-2010, 09:17 PM
I'm no longer in denial. And, weidrly, I'm glad about his ending.
Thanks Nev! *noms cake*
I dont know how you could say he wasnt dead! It said 'bodies' and also, Paton would have called the police or something if he wasnt dead or i dont know. Everyones reactions would have been different... and i think Manfred would have made some sort of noise or movement.
DayDream
06-16-2010, 09:33 AM
Yer, but there calmly manor only fed my denial *whimpers*
soccerale
06-16-2010, 12:32 PM
I refuse to agree with whoever says Manfred is dead. Theory of what happened: Ezekiel died from shock because he thought he could fly and was endowed when he was airborne from Blessed shoving off his wheelchair. When Ezekiel hit Manfred, Manfred became unconsious. He could not be dead due to: a.) It never said lifeless bodies, b.) i doubt Dr. Bloor would be so resigned over his son's death. c.) Jenny said she thought the Bloors would go to Loth academy after the "incident". meaning more than one bloor. and who else does Dr. Bloor have to go with? MANFRED!!!!
=) -denial; a play of joy and a mask of forbearance
Jenny would have made sure to recognize if he was still alive... and... it...said...
BODIES
soccerale
06-16-2010, 07:43 PM
bodies doesn't nessasarily mean lifeless bodies. I bet Ezekiel died though. the bones part could refer to old Ezekiel =). Further more if Manfred died i doubt Dr. Bloor would just stand there, resigned to the fact of his son's death, and just act normal. I mean, what would you think if you saw a guy, his kid died, then he's just like "oh" and goes for donuts or something. I don't think Dr. Bloor's that heartless.
DayDream
06-16-2010, 07:50 PM
Dr. Bloor is supposed to be the Bloor who was most likely to change to the good side, so him acting all 'ho hum' about his sons death was a tad strange.
soccerale
06-16-2010, 08:00 PM
Becoming good doesn't make you say good riddance to something of your own. Plus i don't really think he became good. Just that he realized the fact he'll never be good enough to beat Charlie and his friends.
DayDream
06-16-2010, 08:03 PM
I didn't say he became good, I said he was the one most likely. That's what Jenny said anyway.
soccerale
06-16-2010, 08:08 PM
=) Sorry. didn't mean to sound like i was jumping down your throat. just wanted to prove my point =).
DayDream
06-16-2010, 08:12 PM
'Salright. Plus, I agree with you :D
TeddyBearQueen
06-18-2010, 06:06 AM
Dr. Bloor is supposed to be the Bloor who was most likely to change to the good side, so him acting all 'ho hum' about his sons death was a tad strange.
You know...that kinda makes sense. I mean would you act a bit more tragic about your favorite son? I mean...he did make sure his son was the center of it all at all times. So..maybe my Manfred has a chance...and I also agree with the fact that he'll never be completely good. Yet I do think he'll realize he'll never be good enough to beat Charlie and his company.
I think that Manfred disliked his dad, therefore, it really didnt give Dr. Bloor any reason to fully mourn over his death.
OR MAYBE
It was just kinda like a slap in the face and all he could do was classic Dr. Bloor-- sigh and walk away.
nevermore
06-18-2010, 05:48 PM
no spoiler tags needed here. As long as you're posting in this subforum, which has a spoiler alert in the subforum description, you're fine. :)
le proof (http://charlie-bone.com/forum/announcement.php?f=30)
QueenTheatrics
07-31-2010, 10:13 PM
same.
I think Zeke is probably dead because its unlikely a man of that age could survive a fall. But a healthy 18 year old probably wouldn't die with a wheelchair crashing into them, unless it crushed their organs or something.
I'm fairly sure that he died. Wheelchairs are quite heavy, especially when they come flying at 30mph from the top of a staircase. I think the "flames spluttered and died" was symbolic of Manfred's life spluttering and dying. And the "bodies" is proof enough.
I think the reason that Dr Bloor was so resigned was because he was in shock from losing his son and father and his school all at the same time.